By Felix Quigley

December 30, 2008

The most important part of the previous article on 4international based on the wonderful DEBKAfile report , you find this great site on www.debka.com, are these 2 paragraphs containing the ever perceptive Debka rhetorical question


[Start quote from DEBKAfile here]


The most important mission carried out by the Israeli Air Force Sunday was the destruction of 40 smuggling tunnels, severing Hamas’ arms, fuel, ammunition and reinforcements lifeline from Iran and Syria via Egyptian Sinai. It raised the question of why this feat was not carried out during the three years since the tunnels began functioning.

Whereas Saturday, the Israeli bombers struck with missiles, Sunday, they dropped Guided Bomb Unit-28s (GBU-28) on the Philadelphi tunnels. This laser-guided, 5,000-pound conventional munition was developed for penetrating hardened Iraqi command centers located deep underground. It carries a 4,400-pound penetrating warhead.


This raises many questions.

But first it is necessary to point out that situations of open war in the Middle East always brings out the extreme Israel Hatred that exists in the Media and in broad sections of especially European populations, indoctrinated over decades by that very Media.

Yesterday I experienced this where I presently live here in Spain. And I am just one person existing in a small bubble of reality nor do I pay too much attention to the bourgeois Media at any time. Yet it hit me forcefully.

On the REM Spanish station run by Jewish Dublin man Maurice Boland, Boland confronted Stephen Ritson with a simple question which Ritson did not answer.

Boland pointed to the Wall, that the building of the Wall by Israel cut down the suicide bombs from the “Palestinians” by 98 per cent. Ritzon refused to confront this thus showing that he could care less about those thousands of Jews spattered on the pavements of the streets of Jewish Homeland (remember Ritson refuge from the Holocaust etc)  If he had cared then he would not have dodged Boland’s point and challenge!

Second yesterday I happened to pick up the La Verdad Spanish newspaper and had a look at their 3 full pages devoted to the war, I swear to you it could have been written by a “Palestinian” journalist and maybe indeed it was.

Back to the loaded question above by Debka. The point they make is if Israel had the technique to finish those tunnels 3 years ago then why on earth wait until all this rocketry enters into Gaza proving now such a danger. Yesterday 5 valuable Israeli Jewish lives were lost.

A little aside on this issue of Jewish lives…Israel is surrounded and for every one Jew there are about 5000 bloodthirsty Islamists all eager to destroy the Jews. That is why those 5 Jewish lives are so valuable and are irreplacable.

Ritson would not understand.

So back again…To answer that question of why the Jews did not destroy those tunnels 5 years ago…you have to go into the weaknesses in the Jewish psychology. You see there are elements in it which makes Jews always talk about peace, and living at peace with people who have declared time and time again that they are the enemies of the Jews.


That is the past of the PLO, of the PA, of Hamas and of Ahmadinejad. It is the past of the Holocaust.

What must be repeated over and over is that the November rejection of the UN plans in 1947 by those Arabs of the time was just 2 years following the end of the Holocaust in which the whole Arab population were closely intertwined with the Nazis. So some subterfuge by the Arabs was necessary.

The trick here is that after the Holocaust the Arabs and world Islamists learned quickly that they had to dress this obsessive Jew Hatred in different language.

Hence the “poor” Palestinians image and brand name was created and was promoted heavily, taken up by the Stalinists in Moscow for their own evil reasons, taken up by the mouthpiece of the British Establishment the BBC for their evil reasons, taken up more lately by CNN, hence on to the scruffy little Spanish La Verdad

In this regard let us take a cut off point in the historical timeline. Let us take say 1960. Before this date there was not a mention of the “Palestinians”.

The whole concept is advertiser’s imagery. Before 1960 it was not heard. There were NO Palestinians in that these people called themselves Arabs. Now it is everywhere.

This imagery was sold through lies, lies and more lies. Over the past 15 to 20 years this has seen the rise of clearly pro anti Jewish terror groups like the ISM. Indeed what is a real giveaway yesterday the BBC employed one of these ISM groupies to give an on spot report from Gaza.

So back to the Jews of Israel. Why not use those tunnel busters at the beginning many years ago? Why wait?

The reason is that the minds of too many Jews are filled with “Peace” with their enemies’

It is Shalom this and Shalom that.

That is a nice concept and peace or Shalom is a wonderful idea. But it is NOT a wonderful idea when that hungry, antisemitic wolf is howling at your front door. You get my point. Then it is far better, safer and more conducive to eventual peace to stare that cold hard reality of Jew Hatred right in the eyes and to see that Jew hatred smoking out of those hairy nostrils.

And that really is why those Israeli politicians like Olmert, Barak and Livni kept putting it off. Maybe there is another way they reasoned.

By the way on REM I believe that Jewish man Boland is paying the wages of Ritson That means Boland has a problem if he is true to himself. Ritzon cannot even confront the issue of how to stop suicide bombers, Palestinians, coming in and plastering Jewish brains and muscle onto the pavements of Jewish cities.

Or put another way Ritson cannot confront the question of how Jews can stop suicide bombers.

I am a Trotskyist and we on 4international are Trotskyists. In war if the enemy is coming to kill you we say kill the enemy before he has a chance to do so. Those who talk about being peaceful to your enemy are real hypocrites and worse.

Little children in the Jewish areas of Judea know better. They know the Arabs. That the Arabs want to end the only Jewish state which is Israel while the Arabs have 21 states in existence, including Jordan which was given to the Arabs by the British, carved out of the land given to the Jews in the San Remo League of Nations Treaty of 1920, and peopled now by those Arabs from Palestine.

Little Jewish children know these basic facts of reality. But the suave REM Ritson will never get it. Boland has to or at least as a Jewish man should ask why but I doubt if he will!

The Jews in struggle have a real chance now to understand history. Ritson NEVER!


By Felix Quigley

December 29, 2008

We on 4international salute the wonderful Jewish people and nation of Israel in the valiant struggle against “Palestinian” Fascism as is being conducted now by the amazing warriors of the IDF.

This is the very best reply to those antisemites who inhabit the ISM, the BBC and even on sites such as Harry’s Place.

The Jewish people we were always totally confident would emerge as the warriors that they are. But at this point and as revolutionary socialists, as Trotskyists, we say that the Jews of Israel in fighting against this deadly form of Fascism, which is “Palestinian” Jihadism, are at the very forefront of all progressive thought and action in this world.

This report from DEBKAfile is the very best report on the whole issue. It shows that in every step they take the Jews of Israel are confronting our common enemy. We salute totally these brave fighters of the IDF:

[begin report from DEBKAfile here]

Israeli commandos already fighting behind Gaza lines

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

December 28, 2008, 8:34 AM (GMT+02:00)

GBU-28 penetration bomb

GBU-28 penetration bomb

Amid continuing massive air strikes and wide speculation about whether or not Israeli ground forces will cross into the Gaza Strip, DEBKAfile‘s military sources report small groups of Israeli special forces were already carrying out swift hit-and-run raids Sunday, Dec. 28, on Day 2 of the Israeli Gaza operation.

As Israeli bombers, gunships and drones hovered overhead, picking up every move made by Hamas fighters and their missiles, Israeli stealth squads popped up at command posts, transport routes and missile squads, hit some and then faded away behind sand dunes. This tactic sowed confusion in Hamas ranks and gave them no chance to regroup and recover from the crushing air assault to their military infrastructure. The latest Palestinian death toll is estimated at 296.

This ground operation, which is likely to intensify Sunday overnight, has two objectives:

1. To mark key targets for air bombardment;

2. To blaze the way for a large-scale armored incursion still to come.

The most important mission carried out by the Israeli Air Force Sunday was the destruction of 40 smuggling tunnels, severing Hamas’ arms, fuel, ammunition and reinforcements lifeline from Iran and Syria via Egyptian Sinai. It raised the question of why this feat was not carried out during the three years since the tunnels began functioning.

Whereas Saturday, the Israeli bombers struck with missiles, Sunday, they dropped Guided Bomb Unit-28s (GBU-28) on the Philadelphi tunnels. This laser-guided, 5,000-pound conventional munition was developed for penetrating hardened Iraqi command centers located deep underground. It carries a 4,400-pound penetrating warhead.


Postscript by FQ

Yes this is the way. Fight the Fascist enemy with bravery but also with huge cunning. Do not listen to the US and British Imperialists. They are totally irrelevant anyway. As regards the UN call on the American workers to kick this excrescence out of their wonderful and historical American continent. Forward to victory of the wonderful Jewish people!

Finally do not give any interviews. Never explain. Just act. We are behind you every inch of the way.


by Felix Quigley

December 26, 2008

In this article which I saw on INN Moshe Philips while using this confusing terminology of Right wing etc does make a key point, on the issue of the difference between tactics and strategy

[begin article here]

Does Israel Need a New Party?

by Moshe Phillips

More important than a new party is a clear vision.

On December 8, 2008, it was announced in Israel that Professor Daniel Hershkowitz, a newcomer to party politics, will be leading a new party called HaBayit HaYehudi (“The Jewish Home”). HaBayit HaYehudi was originally an
Is HaBayit HaYehudi really just old wine in a new bottle?
amalgamation of several older right-leaning parties that have been in decline for several years. Since Hershkowitz was named, the party has continued to hemorrhage from the loss of members, supporters and even those organizations that created it.

The next elections in Israel will be the most important in Israel’s history. There are two competing visions for the future of Israel. One vision maintains that Israel keep control over the West Bank and one does not. HaBayit HaYehudi Party, which one can assume will advocate keeping the territories, will participate in the next Israeli elections for the first time. When it was announced that HaBayit HaYehudi Party had been formed, many on the Israeli Right, and their supporters in the US, asked if the Israeli Right really needed yet another political party. Is HaBayit HaYehudi really just old wine in a new bottle?

At a time when Israelis are searching for leaders who can work together to meet the challenges the Jewish State faces, it’s time for the Israeli Right to acknowledge that their established parties have failed. The Nationalist Camp has not found common ground with the Israeli electorate, and has again and again failed to define a way forward that could bring Israelis together to be stronger and better prepared for the future.

The Israeli Right has a problem. It knows that practically speaking Israel must retain Judea and Samaria, the West Bank, in order to have the strategic depth it needs to repel a ground attack. Put another way, without the territories Israel returns to a border that was just nine miles wide at the strategic center of the nation near Netanya, and not much wider at Tel Aviv. These were the borders Israel had from 1948 until 1967, and which the dove Abba Eban labeled “Auschwitz borders”.

The Right also knows that there is a dramatically escalating hostile Islamic population within this historically and religiously intrinsic Jewish area. And further, world pressure and common sense say Israel cannot and should not rule over these people in perpetuity. The Israeli Right has a vision problem.

(Moshe Philips here goes on to explain the betrayal of what he calls the Israeli “Left”…FQ)

The Israeli Left has reacted to the above realities by erecting a security fence and supporting the creation of a Palestinian State. This new Islamic state will be responsible for, it is argued, eliminating terrorist attacks on Israel that originate from within its borders.

The Left’s plans have been proven over history not to work. The Maginot Line and Israel’s own Bar-Lev Line should be enough historical evidence to demonstrate that networks of defensive fortifications cannot work effectively in a real war. To place faith in any Palestinian government to act as a proxy for Israel’s security is so absurd that it simply must be labeled by sane individuals as criminal negligence or sheer lunacy.

Why has the Israeli Left had such success until now? They have presented a clear vision. It was a vision that was totally disconnected from reality, but it was a clear vision.

Why was the Nationalist camp floundering? The parties on Israel’s Right must be asked what their plans are and what their vision is. Other than “voluntary transfer”, or some type of an unworkable autonomy that falls short of a state and may include Jordan, the questions are hard to answer.

All segments of the Nationalist Camp want a future where Jewish settlements grow and can prosper with security. But because of the Arab population in the territories, to most Israelis this is a non-starter. Everyone on the Right wants to see the IDF respond swiftly and severely to rioting and terrorist attacks. Targeted killings are something few on the Right oppose. But this is not a plan. Targeted killings are a tactic. There is a difference between tactics and strategy. The Israeli Right needs a strategic plan.

Jerusalem is at risk. The entire Zionist enterprise is at stake. The Israeli Right simply must step up its game. Stating that Judea and Samaria are lands deeded to the Jewish People by G-d as delineated in the Bible and settling the land is just part of an answer. There must be more.

HaBayit HaYehudi may or may not succeed in their effort to build a viable party
The parties on Israel’s Right must be asked what their plans are and what their vision is.
comprised of religious-leaning right-wing nationalists, as seems to be their goal, but building a new political party is not a vision for Israel’s future. It is a vision for a new party.

Whether a new right-wing Israeli party is needed, or even whether the Nationalist Camp succeeds or fails in the next election, is far less important than the fact that what is needed is a new vision and a new plan. The Israeli Right must change the situation by reinventing itself and developing innovative solutions to Israel’s problems, and then act in a dynamic manner that shifts the paradigm.

If HaBayit HaYehudi Party wants to be successful, it needs to be a purposeful movement. If it is to thrive, HaBayit HaYehudi must articulate its position clearly and comprehensively, and prevail over lesser vehicles, motivated by good intentions perhaps, but which will not make real change happen. In short, HaBayit HaYehudi must set the agenda and not allow its agenda to be set by the emergency of the moment.

Does Israel need another new political party? Only if that party has a vision that will inspire Israel’s masses and articulate a plan to make that vision a reality. If HaBayit HaYehudi is that party, then it is deserving of support; if not….



by Felix Quigley

December 26, 2008

It has not been reported in the West that Katyusha rockets which were set up by Hizbullah and aimed at Israel were defused by the Lebanese Army. These rockets were lying just 3 miles from the Northern border of Israel, ready to fire. This is an area which is under the control of that UN force which was brought in to stop precisely this following the last Lebanon War.

[Begin report from INN here]

The 107-mm missiles, which were fitted with timing devices, were deployed in the Naqoura region, across the border from the central and western Galilee regions, and were set up to be launched at Israel. The source, which spoke on condition of anonymity, said the Katyushas were found in the area between the border towns of Naqoura and Teir Harfa, “a short while before the time set for their launching.”

No details were made available as to which specific type of Katyusha missile was discovered. There are several different versions; during the 2006 Second Lebanon War, the Hizbullah terrorist group used Iranian-modified RAADD Katyushas equipped with warheads carrying 100 kilograms (220 lb) of explosives.

The area in which the missiles were found is supposed to be under the control of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL), but is considered a Hizbullah stonghold. According to the terms of ceasefire agreement set forth in the U.N. Security Council Resolution 1701, the presence of the force was established specifically to prevent such an occurrence.

Hamas terrorists in Gaza began launching medium-range Grad-type Katyusha rockets at the port city of Ashkelon more than a year ago, after receiving advanced munitions and guerrilla training from the Iranian-backed Hizbullah guerillas. One of those missiles was launched at Ashkelon Thursday evening.



by Felix Quigley

December 26, 2008

How many people in Europe and America know that on December 24 two days ago there were over 50 missiles launched at Israel from the Gaza along with other mortar rounds? Very very few is the answer.

This points to the real issue. That the situation of lies has to be changed and the ordinary people must be made known the truth.

The following report from DEBKAfile tells of the reality Israelis face every day. This is NOT being reported by the western Media.

[begin this report from Debkafile here]

The fifty or so missiles and rockets Hamas sent crashing into Israel Wednesday, Dec. 24, along with dozens of mortar rounds, represent no more than a quarter of its capabilities, DEBKAfile‘s military sources report.

IDF officers calculate that the fundamentalist Palestinian group can shoot 200 missiles a day, on a par with Hizballah’s barrage against Galilee in the 2006 Lebanon war, with devastating consequences in casualties and damage to property.

They can reach an area far broader than the strip taking hits from Gaza Wednesday which was delimited by Ashkelon to the north and Netivot to the east. Therefore an outer rim of 30 locations 30 km distant from the Palestinian enclave has now been connected to the Homeland Command’s early warning system, including Kiryat Gath, Kiryat Malachi, the Lachish Region and Ashdod. Homeland Command operations units have been deployed there too, together with emergency medical, firefighting and rescue teams. Magen David Adom is on top terror preparedness with 200 ambulances on standby in southwestern Israel.

The Israeli security cabinet meeting Wednesday concluded that Israel would have to resort to military action to extinguish the escalating missile, mortar and rocket barrage from Gaza, which Wednesday left a trail of some 57 shock victims – half of them children – and wrecked homes, vehicles, shops, workshops and roads. The ministers took into account that Hamas would counter effective Israeli air strikes in Gaza by fielding its long-range missiles now believed to have a range of 42 km. This takes in the important Mediterranean port town of Ashdod and the outskirts of Beersheba.

The dilemma facing Israel’s military command is this: Will Hamas if attacked immediately throw its long-range weapons into the fray against southern Israel, or rather build up the tempo of its short-range missiles in stages? They hope that, like the IDF, Hamas will exercise a measure of restraint and not lose sight of its goal, believed to be the renewal of the “ceasefire” which it formally terminated last Friday.

However, field officers in the South are less optimistic. They told DEBKAfile‘s sources that they don’t believe half-wars are a practical option.

(Of course they are correct here. There is no such thing as a half war. It is either war or not war and Hamas has clearly stated that it intends to destroy Israel. So given that intention the only answer is to defeat that enemy totally. But Israel must also defeat Fatah, it is a must to look at the Fatah intentions and at its Constitution. This MUST bring Israel into total conflict witht he US and EU which builds up the Fatah enemy of Israel behind the Hamas smkescreen…FQ) 

Israeli foreign minister Tzipi Livni has been invited to meet Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak Thursday, Dec. 25, to discuss the Gaza crisis. Cairo has broken the embargo on the Gaza Strip by inviting any government wishing to send aid to the Palestinian population to send it via Egyptian territory.



by Felix Quigley

December 26, 2008

A discussion has just appeared on Israpundit concerning Gaza. For months the Islamofascist Hamas which seeks to destroy Israel (Fatah does too) has been during a truce!!! showering the Israeli land with rockets.

Hamas is financed from both the EU, the US and from Iran. During these past months and few years Hamas has built its firepower to a huge extent so that very few parts of tiny Israel are free from being hit by their rockets. But the question of what to do is essential a question of revolutionary socialist tactics and to a certain extent is psychological. Only with the building of a Trotskyist party in Israel can correct tactics be developed.

It is in that light that we reproduce part of the discussion on Israpundit:

[begin discussion on Israpundit here]

What to do with Gaza

By Ted Belman

In the posts just below this one, both Eiland and Beilin recommend full disengagement from Gaza which means opening it up to the sea and to Egypt. Beilin is from the extreme left (Oslo Accords and the Geneva Initiative) and Eiland is only somewhat to the left. But that is no reason to reject this idea out of hand.

(I interrupt here. This is Belman up to his usual mischief concerning his definition of the Left. In answer to Belman´s lies on this score we assert most forcefully that Belinin is NOT from the “Left” or worse “extreme Left”…FQ)

As for the rocket attacks, Beilin writes,

    Should Qassams and Grad rockets be fired from the Gaza Strip despite the above, we will always reserve the military option, and the IDF would always be able to reoccupy this crowded and problematic place, even if this comes with a heavy price.

and Eiland simply says

    Arms are reaching Gaza anyway, and opening the crossing would once and for absolve Israel of accusations of “occupation.”

Both believe that our blockade of Gaza doesn’t stop the flow of arms and comes at a diplomatic cost.

To my mind, any diplomatic benefit which may accrue to Israel due to the lifting of control would not be worth the military risk in allowing Iran to have full sway in Gaza.

That is not to say Israel should invade Gaza immediately. But Israel must stop the rocket attacks.

Israel should

    1) return to assassinating the Hamas leadership with a vengeance.
    2) announce that she will devastate with artillery any location from which a rocket is fired.
    3) destroy with artillery any arms factory of cache
    4) occupy the southern strip for a couple of miles and destroy all the tunnels.
    5) occupy the northern 5 miles of so to distance the rocket launching from Sderot and other communities.

As for the fear of international condemnation and prosecution for war crimes due to the artillery fire, Israel should pay no heed. Better to have its leadership accused of war crimes than to order an invasion that would result in the death of dozens of soldiers.

Under no conditions should Israel destroy Hamas only to turn Gaza over to Fatah.

(This is the centre of Belman´s argument and in this he is precisely correct. It is on this that Israpundit should concentrate…FQ)

Beilin also comments on how swimmingly things are going in Judea and Samaria. What matters to me is not how we are getting along but how we can retain control over Judea and Samaria. Israel must keep all of Area “B” and “C” as delineated by Oslo. The object of our policies should be to keep this land rather than to get along.

(When Belman starts talking about B and C watch out. This is a recipe for Belman betrayal. Forget B and C, forget Oslo, the Israeli people now need to take control in revolutionary struggle of at least all of Judea and Samaria, Gaza, Golan, present day Israel and administer this as a unit…FQ)

Posted by Ted Belman @ 6:54 am |




    It remains a mystery to me as to why Israel has refused to defend its citizens against Hamas terrorists.

    If Israel merely met them with equal force, missile for missile, the Pals would be running out the back door to Egypt. And that is what should be happening – the Arab states need to take responsibility for their own shameful lack of concern over the terrorism that they have created and promoted.

    It is time that the seeds of violence the Arab states have sown come home to impact Egypt, Syria, Jordan and all other neighbors who sit smugly by while Israel is torn apart by bombs and the weight of international condemnation (Israel really deserves condemnation for doing nothing to defend themselves against the vicious terrorists not for the reasons that the world falsely accuses them).

    The world will condemn Israel regardless of what they do or not do. The only important problem at this time is to stop terrorism and missile attacks. Ted has a good list that would make for an excellent strategy. Israel must listen and stop encouraging terrorism by ignoring it and then trying to get brownie points for sacrificing its people to terrorism.

    Comment by Gary — December 24, 2008 @ 8:31 am


    Israel has a hostile entity on its doorstep which will not surrender or be voted out of power. As has been stated many times, invading Gaza is easy, getting out is not. IDF troops would be subject to the dangers of door-to-door combat as they faced in Jenin and would have to re-occupy the strip following the operation.

    Far better to elect the Indian Kashmir approach. India has been shelling militant positions in Kashmir for 20 years. Thousands have died and yet the world largely ignores the conflict because they are inured to it. Hamas wants a war of attrition; Israel should give it to them. Hand off all power and aid responsibilities to Egypt and let the shelling begin.

    20 years from today, we shall see what remains of Palestinian “society”.

    Comment by Charles Martel — December 24, 2008 @ 12:29 pm


    Charles, you are far off base in your comments. Return shelling is the same old tit for tat that has gone on for years. A democratic nation can not survive under those conditions. Look around at all of the nations in this world who have their security because they were willing to fight for it. War is war and there will be friendly casualties of Israelis; however, attrition would doom Israel into her demise in a number of years. I say that Israel should raise her banner and clobber Hamas into death or surrender, occupy Gaza, controling her security in the south and west.

    I, also, believe that Israel should build defense plants in the Negev in order to create weapons that Israel has to beg for. Defense factories could also provide thousands of jobs and to bolster her economy.

    The International community condemns Israel now, so let’s give them a bonified reason.

    Comment by Ed D — December 24, 2008 @ 12:49 pm


    Ed, I defer to your military expertise but really, can you tell me when (outside of a short war), Israel has ever consistently and overwhelmingly blanketed enemy territory with projectiles? Life would be a much greater hell for the Arabs.

    Besides, retaking Gaza will upset yamit and Ted’s strategy of maintaining Hamas in power indefinitely so as to frustrate international calls for a Palestinian state.

    Comment by Charles Martel — December 24, 2008 @ 1:18 pm


    Most Israelis have developed an aversion to Gaza even before the beginning of the state but that strip if left to it’s inhabitants mostly from Jaffa and center of Israel have an inborn hatred of Israel far stronger than most other Arabs I lived among them for over 10 years, and did most of my active and reserve duty in the Southern command including Gaza Strip. The Gaza Strip is historical Israel and the Arabs are occupying our Land so din Yehuda and Shomron din Gaza. Israel must work to depopulate the strip of Arabs, and take it back and resettle it with Jews. Since over 80% of population are neither native Gazans nor their decedents but so called refugees mostly from Tel Aviv area and center of Israel villages any place they are resettled or driven to is no difference as for most of them in alien Gaza that few of them view as a permanent home. Hamas and Islamic Jihad have given us enough casus belli to wipe the strip clean of Arabs,. The idea being that it should be quick min loss of life and permanent.

    Ed is correct Charles we don’t want tit for tat situation where they control the tempo, timing and methods of the conflict. At the very least Israel must punish Hamas so severely that they begin to understand that to continue would mean their individual and collective eradication.

    Comment by yamit82 — December 24, 2008 @ 1:18 pm


    For every firing of rockets out of Gaza, Israel needs to annex a one or two mile strip of northern Gaza, flushing whatever Gaza residents are there down south. This annexation has to be permanent, never open to negotiations. If the palestinians can’t control themselves, then they will eventually be flushed into Sinai.

    Until Israel learns that it must TAKE land for every attack that is committed against it (such as in the last Lebanon War) the attacks will not stop. The arabs must pay a price for attacking Israel, which is currently not the case – and with the Lebanon War, the arabs even got a piece of land put back into play (Shebaa Farms), thanks to the morons at Kadima.

    Comment by progressoverpeace — December 24, 2008 @ 1:41 pm


    to #6: “flush” is the perfect word.

    Comment by bugsy — December 24, 2008 @ 8:32 pm


    Regarding an invasion of Gaza, Israel cannot afford another victory over the Arabs. It is too embarrassing to these hypersensitive Muslims (though loss of life is irrelevant) and it would take decades to assuage there hurt feelings and get them back to talking peace. Can you imagine what would happen if Israel succeeded in destroying Iran’s nuclear and arms production facilities! The Iranians would remember forever and a Jew would not be able to walk within ten feet of a Persian without wondering if he was going to survive the encounter for just that long – forever. That is why no attack has occurred until now. The Persians practice a religion of mourning and revenge. Until they give up their “beliefs,” no one is safe – not Jew, Christian, Sunni Muslim, or even a doubting Persian. Their motto is “Death to everyone, including me.”

    Comment by jerry — December 24, 2008 @ 9:57 pm


    violence from gaza is encouraged by the perception that there will be another state west of the jordan river. it will never succeed. ending the delusion is the first step to stabilizing the entire area west of the jordan river.

    the following was originally distributed on july 12, 2006!

    The verdict is in. The experiment in Gaza has proven that Arab leadership has no interest in creating a peaceful society living alongside Israel in harmony and tolerance. Therefore, we hereby declare that the occupation and administration of the West Bank has been terminated.
    The entire West Bank without exception is declared to be an integral part of the State of Israel.
    The Palestinian Authority is hereby disbanded. All quasi-governmental agencies, militia groups and organizations and entities hostile to the Jewish State of Israel are ordered to be disbanded. All weapons are to be deposited with local police and military authorities.
    Residents of the West Bank who accept the authority of Israel will be candidates for permanent residency and/or citizenship. Others will be removed to the Gaza Strip with appropriate financial consideration.
    The Jewish State of Israel will be governed by local authorities elected in district elections over the next two years. The civil and religious rights of all peoples will be respected.
    Arabs who have escaped from the West Bank into pre-1967 Israel will be welcome to return to their homes on the West Bank.
    An era of prosperity, social reform and political stability will come after the removal of the current violent, corrupt leadership.
    It is time for sane unilateral actions. Oslo, Camp David, Roadmap, Two-state solutions have failed. A permanent solution is required.
    Further information and details can be found at http://www.onejewishstate.com

    Michael Wise

    Comment by mikewise — December 25, 2008 @ 7:22 am


    mikewise: great plan except it should be expanded to the original borders of the mandate and Balfour Declaration, why limit Israels borders only to the Jordan River? The little King will eventually be overthrown By Hamas or other Islamic radicals and then we will have an enemy with modern weapons and all the prerogatives of an enemy state directly on our eastern border probably with the help and support of the whole world. Without Israel the Little King would not last a year in Power. Democracy has no place in the middle east and I doubt seriously anyplace else as it allows multiculturalism, pluralism, nihilism and rule by the lowest common denominators of values national narratives and nationalism itself to be clouded and influenced by a majority of the self interested to subvert the collective and even the national interest. If By democracy you mean one man one vote, equality of all citizens under one common Law, then this in the end would eventually allow a large minority to dominate the Israeli and Jewish concepts of national particularism. All That supposes that the Arab minority would continue to be so. I don’t know of any sane Israeli who today believes that the Arab who have today Israli citizenship would ever cease to be recidivists and cease becoming what the Torah calls a thorn in our side if not an actual 5th column.

    major religious limitation is the concept of ger toshav. The Torah presumes a strong, politically incorrect, ethnically conscious Israeli state and so allows a number of foreigners to reside there as submissive resident aliens who respect the state’s Jewish character. Rabbis uncritically grafted that concept onto modern Israel. Kahane accepts that some Arabs can live in Israel with restricted civil rights. That won’t work. They will cry injustice, protest against apartheid, bring their extended families to Israel in family reunion schemes, and breed on Israeli welfare. No Arabs should be left in Israel, with the possible exception of those married to renegade Jews.

    Other than allowing any Arabs to remain in any part of the Land of Israel and Republican Democracy as the system of governance I agree with everything else.

    Comment by yamit82 — December 25, 2008 @ 11:10 am



    Regarding an invasion of Gaza, Israel cannot afford another victory over the Arabs. It is too embarrassing to these hypersensitive Muslims (though loss of life is irrelevant) and it would take decades to assuage there hurt feelings and get them back to talking peace. Can you imagine what would happen if Israel succeeded in destroying Iran’s nuclear and arms production facilities! The Iranians would remember forever and a Jew would not be able to walk within ten feet of a Persian without wondering if he was going to survive the encounter for just that long – forever. That is why no attack has occurred until now. The Persians practice a religion of mourning and revenge. Until they give up their “beliefs,” no one is safe – not Jew, Christian, Sunni Muslim, or even a doubting Persian. Their motto is “Death to everyone, including me.”

    I think you are confused the current Jewish Holiday is Chanukah and not Purim; Unless you are really serious and then my ans to you would be serious and to the point and you would not like to read what I could write about you then.

    Comment by yamit82 — December 25, 2008 @ 11:15 am


    To Jerry in #8. I am assuming that you are serious in your statement. If that is the case I am wondering if you were born an idiot or worked hard to become one?

    Comment by Ed D — December 25, 2008 @ 1:07 pm



    Ed is correct Charles we don’t want tit for tat situation where they control the tempo, timing and methods of the conflict. At the very least Israel must punish Hamas so severely that they begin to understand that to continue would mean their individual and collective eradication 

    You are kidding yourself if you believe Israel is completely sovereign in it ability to attack Gaza. It is still very much a puppet of America and E.U. Otherwise why is there a quartet guiding the Israeli-Pals negotiations?. Why is Israel still being held responsible for Gaza as is indicated by the numerous times the borders were unsealed? what about the recent tranfer of 100 mil shekels by Israel to Hamas after a request (order) by World bank.None of this can be explained except by frankly stating the fact that Israel is still very much subject to very powerful outside forces.We also know that with the new American presidency, Israel will have to contend with an increase in outside pressure.

    Comment by palworthy — December 25, 2008 @ 10:59 pm

  14. http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=6700#more-6700


by Felix Quigley

December 26, 2008

Paul Eidelberg  takes a defeatist position towards the Jews of Israel today. It is in that light that he looks back to this very valuable historical experience from 1919 in then Palestine. However he does well to bring this piece of history to light and we thank him for his effort. Just to note that the Jews of Israel today are not lacking in the slightest of the will to fight, this including atheistic Jews as well as religious Jews. What is lacking is clear leadership which in essence can only be provided by a Trotskyist party fighting to lead in Israel.

[begin quote here]

Jewish Pride. Where is it now?

Then and Now

Paul Eidelberg

Back in 1920, an event took place in Israel that redounds to the honor and courage of many Jews, secular and religious. Indeed, since these Jews were then subject to British rule, their noble conduct shines all the more brilliantly when contrasted to the behavior of many Jews in the supposedly sovereign state of Israel—and I have especially in mind Israel’s ruling elites.

The event is recorded in Dr. Joseph B. Shechtman’s excellent biography of Vladimir Jabotinsky, from which I shall quote and paraphrase.

At the end of 1919, Jabotinsky formed the Jewish Defense Corp (Haganah) in reaction to Arab violence. On April 4, an Arab mob, inflamed by anti-Jewish speeches, began attacking Jews in Jerusalem. “Soon Jewish blood was shed and the mob rushed into the Jewish quarter to kill and to pillage, shouting: “El Dowleh ma’ana (the government is with us).”

“Instead of assisting the victims, Arab police either adopted a passive attitude or joined the attackers. The pogrom lasted two days and resulted in five Jews and four Arabs killed, 211 Jews and 21 Arabs wounded; two Jewish girls were raped.”

The only part of Jerusalem affected by the riots was the Jewish quarter in the Old City, where Orthodox Jews refused to permit Jabotinsky’s Jewish Self-Defense Corp to operate. All other quarters of the City were guarded by Jewish patrols, with the result that not one casualty occurred in these areas.

“Hardly was the pogrom over when the British administration started reprisals against the Jewish defenders of Jerusalem.” Twenty Haganah members were arrested, including Jabotinsky. The men were brought into an interrogation room, where they were surrounded by Arab guards with Turkish lashes in their hands.

On the order of the judge (an Australian captain), an Arab secretary started the investigation by addressing Jabotinsky in Arabic: “What is your name?” There was no answer. The question was repeated in French: Votre nom, Monsieur? No answer. Finally in English: “Will you please tell me your name?” No answer.

The judge lost patience, banged on the table and angrily shouted: “Why don’t you answer?”

Turning to the judge, Jabotinsky said quietly but firmly: “Your honor! I shall not answer a court secretary who belongs to the tribe of the murderers whose attacks upon innocent people, coupled with pillage and raping, are still going on beyond these walls. Furthermore, I shall answer no questions unless they are asked in Hebrew, my language, the language of the Land of Israel and the language of my nineteen comrades.”

“There are no nationalities in the Court; there are only officials,” the judge sternly admonished him.

“If this is the case, I shall not reply to this official,” was the composed answer.

“Take him out of the room,” ordered the judge.

This was quickly done. But the remaining prisoners firmly clung to Jabotinsky’s policy. The Court adjourned. Two hours later they were summoned again; a Jewish sergeant, speaking English and Hebrew, was in the secretary’s chair and his opening question was in Hebrew” “Mah Sh’meicha?” (What’s your name?).

But this is not all. We read in the sequel: “The Jews of Jerusalem learned that Jabotinsky and his comrades … were committed for trial, on Sabbath, April 10th. The same day, three hundred-eighty members of the Defense Corp who had not been arrested, signed a petition to the Court declaring themselves at one with the twenty arrested men and asking to be tried together with them.

“Simultaneously, in all synagogues signatures were collected under a petition expressing full solidarity with Jabotinsky and stating that, although the signatories had not been in a position to participate in the Self-Defense Corp, they would have done so, had it been possible. The Chief Rabbi of Jerusalem, Rabbi Kook, was the first to sign the petition and authorized its signing on the Sabbath by others.

“Two thousand five hundred Jews signed, among them three hundred women who stated they had been urging their husbands, brothers, sons to join the self-defense. The petition was submitted to the Military Court, but was disregarded.”

Jabotinsky and his comrades were tried, found guilty, and sentenced to fifteen years penal servitude—this, for defending Jewish life and Jewish honor against murderous and rapacious Arabs! Indignation seized the Jews in Jerusalem and all the suburbs. Haaretz reported on April 20: “All the schools, institutions, shops, etc. are closed. Nobody on the streets; no trading, no newspapers, nothing. A total strike.” The Rabbinate proclaimed the 26th of April a day of general strike, fast, and mourning, with the sounding of the Shofar in all synagogues in the country. (What would happen in Israel if such a strike were called today?)

When news about the vindictive sentence reached London, a storm of public indignation was aroused. Members the House of Commons were embarrassed, for Jabotinsky had served as an officer in the British army during World War I, indeed, had organized the Jewish Legion that fought on the side of the allies.

On July 8th, the High Commissioner of Palestine, Sir Herbert Samuel, issued an amnesty for all those imprisoned in connection with the Jerusalem riots, including two Arab rapists! Instead of being exonerated as he had insisted, Jabotinsky and his comrades were placed on the same level as Arab rapists and pogromists! He bitterly protested, but in vain.

A bright episode in Jewish history was thus dimmed by what we now call “moral equivalence.” But the Jewish pride and courage displayed by Jabotinsky, his comrades, and his 2,500 supporters—let us again mention Rav Kook—should serve to inspire Jews today confronted, as they are, not only by bloodthirsty Arabs, but by a shameless and pusillanimous government at war with heritage of the Jewish people.