WE PREDICT THAT AMERICAN JEWS WILL TURN AGAINST OBAMA

The encounter with Yamit82 has been a serious matter

The article in which this encounter took place is on

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=15181&cpage=1#comment-56771

The road was ploughed by a comment from a man called gary who lives in Canada. As I understood him Gary was saying that the`positions that Yamit was taking up essentially were preventing a proper discussion taking place.

 

SO WHO IS YAMIT82…WHY IS HE IMPORTANT?

 

Yamit82 is a Jewish man who lives now in Israel and who writes so much on Israpundit that he has come to dominate the site. Israpundit is important in that it is read in important circles. Sop what happens there gets around.

 

What was involved in our challenge to Yamit82 was the right to defend the Trotskyist perspective on Israel

 

Which is:

 

Israel is the Homeland of the Jews. The Jewish religion, Judaism, is very much tied in with Israel. After all the Jews have had thousands of years of persecution because of their religion.

 

So we fight for Israel, and for Israel as a place where Jews are free. That means free to be religious Jews in whatever way they wish and of course to be atheists also if they wish.

 

There are many Jews who are atheists. That does not stop them being Jews. That was perhaps the sharpest point of the discussion.

IT IS A DIFFICULT ISSUE TO RAISE AND DISCUSS BUT IT HAS TO BE.

 

Difficult because Judaism is the heart of the Jews struggle to survive as a nation over 4000 years

But it has to be raised because there are many Jews today who are not religious but who I believe will be fighters for Israel.

 

 

The other point of great importance and concern is that Yamit82 had a dismissive and contemptuous attitude to any Jew who would continue to live in say America and not leave immediately for Israel.

 

That latter point had a subtext which was quite explicit. That if Yamit82 wants only all Jews to leave the lands like America and go to Israel then what he is really saying is that there is no need to defend Israel in countries like America.

 

And so whatever way you cut the politics of Yamit82 he is posing a situation of Jews as a race against all of the rest of humanity.

 

This is a definite trend in Judaism and in Zionism. It is a reactionary concept. There is also more than one word than gentile. A very dangerous trend. Gary may have had this in mind also.

 

All of this is peppered in the politics and language of Yamit82 with absurd and crude attacks on socialism and especially on leaders like Lenin and Trotsky. So absurd and essentially lacking in basic knowledge of history that it is a little below our dignity to answer. There will be another place to do this, essentially in the education of a cadre, under systematic conditions.

 

THIS DISCUSSION HAS LED ON TO THE PERSPECTIVE TOWARDS THE AMERICAN JEWISH PEOPLE, AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AS A WHOLE

In the struggle for Israel we on 4international do not dismiss the American Jewish people.

 

Much has been made that the American Jews voted for Obama and the split was 80 to 20. However that was at the point of the election.  That could now have changed; it could now easily be 70 to 30.

 

Accept that for the moment, that means that 30 per cent of all Jews in America are supportive of Israel against Obama OR ARE BEGINNING TO MOVE AGAINST OBAMA

 

But that is 30 per cent of a very large number. Say the population of Jews in America is 6 millions then that would mean around 2 millions of Jews.

 

Is that not enough people to be working with doing systematic education?

 

Let me give just one simple example on this. How many of these Jews in America have a working knowledge of The Holocaust, and especially of the key research done recently into the role of the Arab from Palestine Hajj Amin el Husseini. Very few in fact have. And that is the fault of leadership. This also came up in the discussion where Yamit82 attacked the great publicist of the Hajj Amin el Husseini material. Yamit82 attacked Jared Israel because he did not see the relevance of such propagandist and educational work among American Jews. He dismisses them. Surely a dangerous trend.

 

But Yamit82 hates Trotskyists so much because we are not just fighting to mobilize American Jews behind Israel. They are important but not alone. There is the whole of the American population involved here in this struggle.

 

What is more important than all the words of Yamit82 and imbecile reactionaries like “Max” on Israpundit is that a group of American Jews have set up a new campaigning organization. It is called Zio Street or ZStreet.

 

The demands and programme of ZStreet are truly progressive and we on the Trotskyist vanguard wish it well indeed.

 

Many Jews in America dislike Bush and Cheney. The alliance of the two and of Blair in relation to the supposed WMDs of Saddam led into the reactionary war in Iraq which will have strengthened Iran immeasurably.

 

But the Democratic Party as we saw in Yugoslavia is exactly the same.

 

So now these Jews who disliked Bush must also reach the conclusion that Obama is an even worse enemy and an even more open ally of Iran and of Islamofascism.

 

But that needs in America a revolutionary Trotskyist party to fight for these concepts.

 

What else is there?

 

 

 

Postscript

The programme launched by ZStreet is of the utmost importance.

 

There are many who call themselves “Zionists” and some of them are very strange cookies indeed.

 

Many of these so called “Zionists” are attacking American Jews and essentially writing off American Jews.

 

What utter imbeciles these people are.

 

Their political line is that if somebody does not present themselves in America as a Jew who opposes liberal causes and do not place themselves behind people like Bush…then they do not want to know.

It is worth your while to have a close read of the programme of ZStreet

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=15279#comments

 

Whatever happened to political discussion, political persuasion, to the role of the intervention of a revolutionary party?

 

It is clear that is needed a revolutionary Trotskyist party in America.

 

This launch of their new leadership by ZStreet is to be fully welcomed however and can do nothing but good. We will support it fully and we will maintain our own organizational and political independence on every issue.

3 thoughts on “WE PREDICT THAT AMERICAN JEWS WILL TURN AGAINST OBAMA

  1. Felix,

    You are right that Yamit writes an awful lot on Israpundit. That does not mean he has come to dominate Israpundit in terms of views expressed there. He only gets the nod on quantity.

    As I have before noted in exchanges with Yamit and with you, while I at times agree with points both of you make, I may express those points somewhat differently or may agree, but with certain caveats or with certain amplifying supplemental factors that in my view are part of the mix going into formulating a conclusion.

    Both you and Yamit have at times in reading my comments, failed to recognize that we are in the main agreed.

    Instead you both at times have rancorously attacked me personally and focussed on differences of expression, that to my mind raise irrelevancies or make big things out of small things. Your anger with where we might differ however, blinds you to the big picture I addressed and thus your counterpoints never do alter the fact that there is little, if any daylight between our respective views.

    I would like to think I have convinced you of that at least sometimes.

    By your own admission you are an ideologue, much enthralled with Trotsky, whom you advise was very much advocating against antisemitism and the Zionist dream of a return to Zion and the rebirth of the Jewish nation.

    You have interpreted history and events in such way as to provide you with validation that Trotsky’s thinking was correct and you are right to accept his views.

    I am not an ideologue and thus do not seek to fit my take on history and circumstances into any particular ideological pidgeon hole.

    My way is to assess history and pertinent facts as they are and arrive at a particular conclusion uninfluenced by any particular ideology, if any ideology.

    I am not certain from reading your views Felix as to whether you apply the same reasoning as I do and then go the extra step beyond me to say to yourself and others, “see that is what Trotsky believed and predicted? or you actually start with Trotsky’s views to guide you in determining what facts are relevant and should be assembled to then assess.

    As I noted elsewhere, on matters pertaining to Jews and Israel, we are pretty much ad idem, though we have arrived at much, if not the same view from different places.

    As for Yamit, you may have noticed he has much toned down his contrariness when he happens to disagree with someone’s point of view including me.

    You no doubt also must have noted that I have been over the years hammering away at avoiding ad hominem attacks and engaging in only respectful comments well reasoned. Comments presented in that fashion, while more softly spoken, can be just as strongly made and have a much better chance of being heard and understood.

    I think my efforts have been paying off as I said as regards Yamit and others who are given to outbursts.

    You and I both align against Yamit’s views to the extent he says diaspora Jews must come to Israel and where he too much couches his arguments on biblical history and the bible.

    I do think biblical arguments do have a place in the mix of arguments being advanced, but other bases for argument must be accorded significance as well.

    I prefer when it is convenient and appropriate to approach an analysis from different perspectives and bases, something along the lines of the expression, “all roads lead to Rome”.

    I look forward to engaging with you further.

    Regards,

    Bill

  2. Catholics lie to get what they want, but underneath do anything to advance global feudal peasant fascism, which is why they yearn to canonize their nazi pope and abide Pio Nino’s stricture against democracy, even if they unite with Muslims and Confucians.

  3. 4:
    Shalom, I emailed you, no response.
    Anyway-American-Jews will march straight to their deaths here in America.
    Just as they did in Germany. They are the worst anti-semites and Jew haters in this world, worse than neo-nazis, imo. Treachery in all ranks. It is shameful to look at.

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