GELLER/SPENCER VERSUS GATES OF VIENNA…DO ANY OF THESE CALL FOR VICTORY TO GADHAFI OVER NATO, WHICH IS THE ISSUE?

 

In this conflict between Pamela Geller and Gates of Vienna, which both incorporate a huge swath of blogs etc., I am proud to say that I on behalf of Trotskyism am very definitely located nowhere, but I am evading nothing. As this analysis will show.

 

What is absent in short from this discussion is what is going on in the real world in which we live every day, and foremost at this point in time I would place the war of NATO against the Muammar Gadhafi regime in Libya

 

In this war by NATO on a small part of a country, that represented by Gadhafi, I with 4international line up on the side of Muammar Gadhafi. As I explained before I do not just call to defend Gadhafi, I call for the victory of Gadhafi and his forces against NATO.

 

FOR THE DEFEAT OF AMERICA AND THE EU

I want to see the US ruling class of Obama but also including many others in America defeated in this war. Ditto for those EU ruling governments, in particular the British, but also the Spanish where at present I reside.

 

Got that!

 

Victory to Gadhafi! Defeat for NATO!

 

Also although I would not chose his methods any methods which Gadhafi chooses to use in this war then I defend his use of those methods. I defend Gadhafi against the Fascist NATO in the same way that Leon Trotsky defended Haile Selassie in the 1930s. It is the exact same precedent.

 

THAT IS WHAT IS LEFT OUT OF THIS CONFLICT BETWEEN GELLER AND GATES OF VIENNA OVER THE EDL

 

 

THAT SAID LET US TURN AGAIN TO THIS ISSUE OF THE EDL

The discussion (over the issue of Pamela Geller and the English Defence League) is seriously skewed because while this goes on the Imperialist forces of NATO, especially the US and EU, are engaging in one of the worst imperialist wars ever, which is the campaign to replace the Gadhafi regime with one based on Qaradawi’s Muslim Brotherhood. It is not as if this is new! This is consistent on the part of NATO, from Bosnia, Kosovo, Tunisia, Ivory Coast, Egypt and of course Libya.

 

I do not know about G of V, but I do know about the position of Geller and Spencer, because I support their analysis of Islam which has been consistently very precise, and I believe that the campaign against Rauf was most important.

 

Both of these thus do great work in explaining and fighting against the evil ideology of Mohammedanism.

 

DANGER IS NOT ALONE FROM ISLAM…IT IS THE ALLIANCE WHICH NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED

But in our period of time the danger does not come alone from Islam. It comes from the alliance of capitalist governments and Islam.

 

This is precisely where I and 4international have continually separated from all of the above. They say it is the Jihad, I say it is the alliance of Imperialism and Jihad. The alliance, a real definite alliance, not people who are mistaken, or who are naive etc.

 

THE NEW DEVELOPMENT WHICH TELLS US THE FUTURE

The President of the US, Obama Husseini, has allied US along with the Muslim Brotherhood, not in a subtle underhand way but in an open and official manner. And US president Husseini has been leading and pushing the Arabs (on behalf og the Muslim Brotherhood) to create a Nazi, Judenfrei, Palestine Arab Jihadist state on the flank of Israel.

(See excellent article on this by Barry Rubin on Pajamas Media)

 

These are the issues, and the role of their own governments in all of this, that is absent from the Open letter to Pamela Geller by the Vienna people, as it is also on Atlas Shrugs. In the absence of this political context, and the role of the Governments of Europe and America in the Imperialist war on Muammar Gadhafi, the latter vital because it happens as we speak, in the present, with the reactionary British elite of Tory/Liberal/Labour playing a leading role along with France, shades of the NATO bombing of Serbia by the same forces, that this conflict between these two sides (now collecting signatures!) becomes meaningless and a politically sectarian affair. That is what must be changed.

 

Where Geller and Spencer go serious wrong is that they separate the reactionary Jihad and issue of supremacist Islam from the overall drive of the Imperialist powers to create dictatorship (of their own) in each country and an overall dictatorship in the shape of some kind of Soros inspired  and media led New World Order. They are in fact supporters of American Imperialism and of the capitalist worldwide system. But in every single situation, from Bosnia and Kosovo to the Ivory Coast, and now Libya, it is these capitalist governments who are in alliance with the reactionary and medieval forces of Islam

 

SETTING UP A JEWISH SECTION WAS AN EVASION OF RESPONSIBILITY…TO JEWS!

It seems to me from what I read so far that Geller and Spencer did not have any right, from the standpoint of parties and groups operating in a fraternal manner, to cut the ground from under the leadership of the EDL. What Geller and Spencer did was not to operate in a fraternal manner in any sense of the meaning of the word fraternal. They may argue that it was for the good of the movement in general. The mistake of setting up a “Jewish section” in the EDL has been compounded by Pamela Geller linking with that Jewish section (Moore) to the exclusion of the central leadership in the EDL around Robinson, Carroll and Price (those I know of)

 

Why was it a mistake to set up a Jewish section? The reason is now in hindsight rather obvious. To use a football metaphor the Jewish issue has been taken off the playing field and placed along the sideline, somewhere round the corner flag

 

The reason why this is so damaging to all concerned is contained in my first statement of yesterday in which I made a fraternal call to the EDL leadership to organise a serious education programme among the ranks, which will deal with the revolutionary origins of the English nation under the Cromwellian Revolution, but followed by the treachery of the Restoration, and the subsequent treachery with cruelty of the British ruling class on an international scale. And with the one exception of Balfour no other people has suffered more and paid a higher price from British treachery than the Jewish people. The British leader Churchill who has a reputation of being for the Jews was the very man who did much damage to Jews. He did this when he treacherously sliced off in an underhand and unilateral manner, the whole of “Transjordan” from the promised (San Remo Treaty of 1920) Homeland, and thus delivered a blow to the Jewish people from which they NEVER recovered. That action of Churchill, acting on British Imperialist interests, sliced off 80 per cent and gave it to the Arabs. And if such an 80% could be sliced off once why not again. The process set in of curtailing the Jews into a smaller and smaller area, a process which condemned the Jews to the Nazi Holocaust, finished off by the British ruling class as a whole via the iniquitous British Parliament’s White Paper of 1939.

That is my central point. The EDL leadship has to be based on that history. Thus they must as a whole fight against antisemitism in Britain in all its forms.

 

THE CRITICAL 1948 PERIOD

Churchill was of course playing as ever up to the Arabs and the Jews have suffered. Thus when the critical 1948 year came along Britain had long been siding with the Arabs against the Jews and in this case, in 1948, actually working with the German Nazis, and with Hajj Amin el Husseini, in the planned continued genocide of the Jews. For the Arabs and the British ruling class the Holocaust did not stop at all in 1945.

 

This has created the situation of today where Britain is allied with Hamas/Fatah (Note they did not prosecute Galloway!) and where President Husseini Obama is recognising along with Jew Hater Hilary the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

DEFENCE OF JEWS AND DEFENCE OF ZIONISM AT THE VERY CENTRE OF EDL

This history of the British towards the Jews is the imperative reason why the struggle for British emancipation which the EDL represents must place in that very central circle of the football field the defence of Israel and the Jews against the dominant ideology in Britain which is anti-Semitism.

 

Posing the issue in this way also shows why Pamela Geller was wrong on a whole number of fronts.

 

1. There can be no pure movement in Britain free from anti-Semitism because the dominant culture in Britain is just that…anti-Semitism
2. Rather than a Jewish section playing an imaginary game on the sideline the whole central leadership of the EDL, and other such parties, must place the defence of Jews and the defence of Israel, against British politicians of all stripes, against Hussein Obama, and against Ashton and others on the EU, at the very centre of its political struggle in Britain. We on 4international really do salute the valiant efforts of EDL leaders such as Carroll and Robinson who have already started out on this road. We offer, since this is not an individual speaking but the organization and website 4international, every possible support and assistance, offered from the standpoint of Trotskyist independence and of fraternity. It goes without saying that the Spencer and Geller formula “we have our eye on you” is extremely reactionary, is quite hostile actually, and is rooted in misconceptions of what national liberation movements actually are. Also, believe it or not, in how superior is America, while in point of fact in many ways the British workers are far in advance of the American workers. For example, it is possible that the EDL leaders may fail and will be submerged by the dominant antisemitic ideology in Britain. The important thing though is the fight against antisemitism.
3. It therefore goes without saying that the present anti-Semitic “left” does not in any way represent socialism. We do. Join us. This antisemitic “left” has to be confronted and this is where we really separate from all!
4. Point 3 above needs to be taken very seriously. One of the features of the present situation is that all of the groups on the left are in support in one way or another of Fascist Islam. It is like a repeat writ large of the Stalin alliance with the Nazis prewar. And people who are really serious about the future, and serious about the future of the working class, and since we are talking about the EDL here, about the British working class, must address this central question of socialist leadership. It is the absence of a Trotskyist Party, fighting against Islam, fighting against NATO, fighting against anti-Semitism and for the unconditional defence of Israel…that is the biggest factor of all. THAT should be the starting point in this discussion between Geller and gates of Vienna. As to the whole idea of signatures well that solves not a single thing.

WE MUST DEFEND THE EDL FROM STATE PROVOCATEURS AND CENTRAL IN THIS DEFENCE IS TO PROTECT ISRAEL AND JEWS FROM THE IRANIAN/PALESTINIANARAB/NATO PROVOCATIONS

THE BIGGEST ISSUE OF ALL IS TO DEFEND MUAMMAR GADHAFI URGENTLY AGAINST THIS NATO WAR MACHINE WHICH IS IN ALLIANCE WITH THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD AGAINST ALL FIGHTERS FOR LIBERTY

 

WE DEFEND THE EDL UNCONDITIONALLY

 

WE DEFEND GADHAFI UNCONDITIONALLY

 

BEFORE WE DEAL WITH GADHAFI SOME REMARKS ABOUT THE CONFLICT OVER THE EDL

 

It is important that all groups and parties who are opposed to Iran, opposed to the Syria/Iran/Hizbullah/Hamas/Fatah axis should form a United Front

 

This need has been intensified by the whole discussion connected with the English Defence League about which we on 4international are not going to be involved with, because this takes away from looking at the realities that we face from a capitalist system that is plunging into terminal crisis, and which is obviously in alliance with Islam.

 

4international are totally independent and we make our own minds up on the basis of facts. I cannot get the facts so I take up only a general position.

 

We thus have our own position on the English Defence League. We see it as a type of national liberation movement, and is connected to the needs of the British workers. The EDL must do a number of things which we suggest in a fraternal manner:

 

1. It must intensify the fight  inside its membership to place the defence of Israel and Jews at the centre of its work, and it has been inspiring in this, which should be acknowledged
2. It must make a serious study of British history, to understand that the English Revolution of Cromwell represented its highest point as a nation, and that the Restoration of Monarchy was a betrayal. Such a study will also seek to educate British workers of the cruelty of the British ruling classes to subject peoples abroad.

Doing just those 2 things will be a great addition and advance for the British workers, which this is all about.

 

In any case we on 4internatikonal defend the EDL unconditionally against all attacks, especially against attacks by the British state, which will seek to destroy this new initiative.

 

Having said that we wish to move to the issue of Iran and the dire threat that Iran, in conjunction with everything that the US and EU does to bolster Iran, and to make war on at present Gadhafi in order to promote the Muslim Brotherhood in Libya, because this is the decisive issue.

 

The EDL and all of these groups and individuals should concentrate on that and ask how to defend the Jews and defend Israel in the face of this alliance between on the one hand the US and EU, and on the other the Muslim Brotherhood which is spearheaded by Iranian fascism.

 

Hence there is need for a United Front to fight in this coming period.

 

We on 4international unfortunately are small in numbers but we are rich in history because we represent the only true Trotskyist tendency and the only true continuation of socialism. Please consider joining us or at least writing to us (below…mark private if you wish…we decide what to publish)

 

Consider carefully in this context of the need for a United Front this article by the great analyst website debkafile

 

this is the debka take on what is happening as we write on Libya

Libyan Ruler Muammar Qaddafi may have been bluffing when he said “The Libyan people are capable one day of taking the battle to Europe and the Mediterranean [chiefly Italy and France]” if NATO continues its air strikes, and …”throwing ourselves on Europe like swarms of locusts or bees” to attack “your homes, your offices, your families [who] would become legitimate military targets because you have transformed our offices, headquarters, homes and children into military targets which you say are legitimate.”

But the threat he relayed by audio to a huge pro-government rally in Tripoli Friday, July 1,may not be just a scare tactic but his last warning for NATO to abandon its large-scale, all-out military bid to kill or oust him, which debkafile’s military sources report is in its last stage of planning.
The coming coup de grace, expected in the next couple of weeks, is the hottest topic of discussion in the corridors of power and high-level military and intelligence get-togethers in London, Paris, Brussels, Moscow, Oslo, The Hague and Rome. It is expected to start in a couple of weeks with French and British troop landings on Libyan soil, to be followed in its last stages of by American forces.

Despite US President Barack Obama’s denials of direct military intervention in the Libya war – “American forces are playing only a limited support role in the NATO operation” – US sources made the following disclosure Thursday June 30: “The US Air Force and Navy aircraft are still flying hundreds of strike missions over Libya.”

Qaddafi views France’s supply of weapons to Libyan rebels as the opening shot of the final act in the scenario for removing him. He is convinced now that NATO will not be thrown off course by diplomacy or political concessions – even his recent offer of UN-supervised elections to decide whether the Libya voter wants him to stay or go.

If nothing else avails for his survival, debkafile’s military and counter-terror sources report that Qaddafi has the options and resources for making good on his threat before or after being forced out of power.
He could retire to the Sahel Desert, the desolate belt running north of the Sahara and stretching from the Atlantic to the Red Sea, and mount terrorist operations against Europe from there. He would operate from a sanctuary with the Tuareg tribes, which have links with Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb – AQIM and many of whom have been fighting for him as mercenaries.
Incidentally, Western anti-terror agencies have never revealed that the July 7, 2005 London transport attacks, in which 56 people died and more than 700 were injured, were backed logistically by – and received their explosive devices from – al Qaeda’s Tuareg followers.
In the 1970s and 1980s, Qaddafi was a notoriously proactive anti-West terror-master and facilitator who sanctioned such operations as the blowing up of the Pan Am Flight 103 over the Scottish village of Lockerbie in which 250 people died; and the La Belle discothèque explosion in Berlin which killed two US army sergeants.

Among the European and Asian extremists who were trained and supported by Libya were the radical left-wing Red Brigades’ Italian, German and Japanese offshoots and the Irish Republican Army, the IRA.

Libyan agents also took a hand in the East German external intelligence branch’s covert operations in Europe.
Some of the Libyan agents employed in this far-flung campaign of violence are still idle.

It is not known whether or not Qaddafi has decided to reactivate his terror machine which almost certainly retains sleeper cells in parts of Europe – either to pre-empt or to avenge the massive NATO end-game for his rule.

Saturday, July 2, in another bid to avert the offensive, the African Union announced Qaddafi had agreed to transitional negotiations between government and rebel representatives in Addis Ababa under the AU aegis. They would discuss “a consensual and inclusive transition” via an interim government and elections.

This initiative left the way open for Qaddafi to seek refuge on the continent but not to be removed by force.

But the Libyan ruler gave up on the NATO powers accepting any diplomatic solutions to the conflict after his own negotiations with rebel commanders in early June and the truce accord they reached (which was first revealed by DEBKA-Net-Weekly 493 on May 20) were roundly rejected by NATO which urged the rebels to fight on.

In Madrid Saturday, July 2, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saidthe United States and Spain won’t let Qaddafi’s threats of retaliatory attacks in Europe deter their mission to protect Libyan civilians and force him to leave power. “Instead of issuing threats, he should be putting the well-being and interests of his own people first,” she said. “He should step down from power.”

Qaddafi has often been called unpredictable. On June 12, Russian chess master Kirsan Ilyumzhinov, having just played a game against the embattled Libyan ruler, warned that he was capable of catching his opponents off-guard with surprise moves.
But in his war with NATO, he has just laid his pieces out on the table.

 

July 2, 2011

under title

US and NATO prepare final assault on Qaddafi. He threatens terror